EU - In or Out?

Discussion over more serious issues and topics

Should the UK exit the EU?

Yes
5
21%
No
19
79%
Don't care - won't vote
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 24

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RB
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby RB » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:37 pm

Any and all. We vote for MPs with similar views and values to our own. We do the same for MEPs but the majority of European Parliament MEPs, we can't vote for and thus we are unrepresented. This is totally undemocratic and thus wrong.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Helios
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby Helios » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:45 pm

We can't vote for the majority of UK MPs.....

We only vote for the ONE MP that we want.

I don't understand what makes you feel you're unrepresented on the EU parliament.
It's the same concept as the UK parliament.

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Ekona
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby Ekona » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:15 pm

Well, quite.
"Chav kids are like sand people. They're easily startled but they'll be back, and in greater numbers."

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RB
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby RB » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:19 pm

We have a few parties in the UK and we vote for a local MP from that party. Everyone in the UK gets to vote for the same parties as most of the parties worth voting for field candidates in all constituencies. So pretty much the majority of the UK get the party they wanted that best represents them.

In Europe, I can't vote for the French MEPs or the Germans etc so the only say I have is the British MEPs who only represent a tiny amount of voting power.

How do you not get that?
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Helios
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby Helios » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:33 pm

Is there some reason you're being so aggressive and unpleasant?
Am I the only one getting annoyed at your constant rude attitude?
If you don't want to have an actual discussion then go away.
All I'm doing is disagreeing with your point of view.

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Ekona
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby Ekona » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:48 pm

You can't vote for the politicians in London or Cardiff or Edinburgh or Norwich or a hundred other towns, they have an equal say as much as your MP. He only has a tiny amount of voting power. The majority of the U.K. did not vote for who is in power.

How do you not get that?
"Chav kids are like sand people. They're easily startled but they'll be back, and in greater numbers."

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RB
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby RB » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:24 pm

Helios wrote:Is there some reason you're being so aggressive and unpleasant?
Am I the only one getting annoyed at your constant rude attitude?
If you don't want to have an actual discussion then go away.
All I'm doing is disagreeing with your point of view.

All I'm doing is passionately sharing my view. If you see my passion as aggression then that's up to you. If you disagree with my view, that's fine but I'm not going to stop having it or expressing it.
If you can't handle someone else's viewpoint, challenge it, try to understand it or ignore it.


Ekona wrote:You can't vote for the politicians in London or Cardiff or Edinburgh or Norwich or a hundred other towns, they have an equal say as much as your MP. He only has a tiny amount of voting power. The majority of the U.K. did not vote for who is in power.

How do you not get that?

Because my one MP is a member of a whole party with a manifesto and a shared goal.
The British MEPs are essential independents with zero influence. They share nothing with the MEPs from the other countries. It's the same for everyone else in every other country which is why the centralised EU parliament is the reason I hate the EU as it stands and want out.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Ekona
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby Ekona » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:29 pm

So what if your MP wasn't in the majority party in control of the government? Essentially, they'd be just as useless.
"Chav kids are like sand people. They're easily startled but they'll be back, and in greater numbers."

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RB
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby RB » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:37 pm

Not really as the government doesn't always get what they want. The opposition still has a strong voice. Just look at tax credits. But a few MEPs in a large group can't even be an opposition, it's as close to anarchy as you can get.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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Helios
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby Helios » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:06 pm

RB, you obviously enjoy coming across as a rude and aggressive troll.
Your "passionate" arguing leads you to call an opposing party some sort of fascist that wants to create concentration camps.
That's deliberately offensive.
Up to this point I've made no implications or comments about your character because I'm being polite to you even though I disagree.
You're a troll.
Simple as that.
Please grow up and learn some manners.

In response to your point about MEPs sharing nothing in common with other MEPs, you're wrong.
Someone chooses to try to become an MEP because they either believe that the EU is a good thing that needs to be supported or they believe the EU is flawed and needs to be fixed from within.
That applies for all MEPs from any country.
That means they can join forces with other MEPs to push their points of view across.
In essence they form little parties with like-minded people.

If I voted for an MEP I would choose one that wants to bring greater unity to Europe because I'm not fussed about a national identity.
I don't accept that the UK will somehow be more successful standing alone.
So if the MEP joined with other like-minded MEPs then I would be happy with it.

I imagine if you voted for an MEP you would want one that wanted to change the EU.
If that MEP worked with other MEPs that also wanted to change the EU why wouldn't you be happy?

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RB
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby RB » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:30 pm

Like I said, if you read my posts of my views are as rude then that's in your head.

I explained that my example of seeing everyone as the same would lead to forcing them to be the same and killing them if they refused was reductio as absurdum. If you saw that as a personal attack then again, that's in your head.

At no point have I attacked you personally. I did call Hyder and banana, wankpuffins which I kind of apologise for as I'd just learned the word wankpuffin and wanted to use it.

I do however find your characterisation of me as a troll to be rude. Simply because I don't share your view and I'm not afraid to voice my own does not make me a troll and dismissing my views as such is offensive to me.

Say I'm wrong, call me a cunt, threaten to come and beat my face in but don't dismiss my views as nothing more than an attempt to annoy.

Once again it seems I'm not allowed an opinion on this site. Last time it was Jez accusing me of always claiming I'm right. He never explained about what.
I find it amusingly ironic given that I founded this place in order for people to have arguments without being censored.

My view will not change based on the arguments I've seen here but I shall refrain expressing it further as I'm clearly no longer welcome.
A slight majority of a statistically worthless sample size agree.

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bananahead
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby bananahead » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:58 am

I asked for real examples and not slogans. This is because I need to understand how things could possibly be different.

RB wrote:Two things:
Either a call to arms for other countries to leave and then rebuild the EU without central government dictating laws that the populations of countries never get a chance to vote on.

Or else, standing alone with self determination, free from the EU undemocratically dictation laws that don't work here.


What would the new EU look like? (you have never had a chance to vote on laws decided upon by the UK government anyway)

As Ekona says, which laws? Give at least two examples.


I like being a wankpuffin. It's about the nicest thing that I have been called all week.

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siteguru
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby siteguru » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:37 am

Things seem to be getting a bit tense in here .... chill. :)

Image

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Helios
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby Helios » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:43 pm

That's what I've also been saying.
The problems he's saying the EU has are all the same problems that the UK has internally.
But he's not saying he wants to leave the UK and start his own state somewhere else.
I just don't get it.

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siteguru
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Re: EU - In or Out?

Postby siteguru » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:44 pm

Stop confusing us with your avatar! I keep thinking it is DCUK replying. :mrgreen:


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